02. Toy Story with The Cinemile Transcript

[90 Mins or Less Film Fest Music]

SAM:  0:20 Hello, I'm Sam Clements and welcome to the 90 Minutes or Less Film Fest. This is a podcast that celebrates films with a 90 minute or less run-time and is entirely curated by guests on this podcast. Now today, we're joined by not one but two special guests and film festival curators, Dave and Cathy from The Cinemile. Hi guys!

DAVE:  0:43 Hello!

CATHY:  0:44 Hello!

SAM:  0:45 Thank you for for dialing in. This is our first 90 Minutes or Less Film Fest down the wire.

DAVE:  0:51 Yeah, thanks for having us.

CATHY:  0:53 Yeah, very exciting because basically, we all live in London and can't get to each other.

DAVE:  0:57 Yeah, it makes it sound so exotic, like we're really far away. I feel like some sort of Eurovision phone in. But no, the trains didn't time up.

SAM:  1:05 It's that classic thing people live very close to each other, but you know, busy London lives, it's hard to it's hard to be in the same room at the same time.

DAVE:  1:12 Well, it's difficult the life of a film festival programmer. People don't, people don't know what goes on behind the scenes, so many film festivals to program.

SAM:  1:22 You guys are normally pounding the pavement on the way to or from a cinema when you record The Cinemile.

DAVE:  1:27 Pounding the pavement! I like that.

CATHY:  1:29 So The Cinemile tends to be recorded on our walk to and from the cinema but sometimes we're on a bus or on a train. Very rarely are we actually sitting still. So this is weird for us. We're actually looking at each other usually we're looking at straight ahead.

DAVE:  1:41 Never actually looked at you before!

CATHY:  1:42 No, it's funny.

SAM:  1:43 And I guess usually with The Cinemile you'll be covering new releases whereas this podcast is only really interested in films with a 90 minute or less runtime, new or old.

DAVE:  1:53 It's a real treat for us.

CATHY:  1:54 It's a real treat, like we tend to, one of the main things I actually look up when we're going to the cinema is genuinely the duration because some movies just, because we've got a baby when we factor in getting to and from the cinema, the length of the movie, it's like quite stressful if something's too long. Like the first movie we went to after he was born was Blade Runner, and I just could barely contain myself in the cinema. This is so long this movie needs to end as much as I enjoyed it. It was too stressful.

SAM:  2:19 That's bold! Wow.

CATHY:  2:21 It was really silly.

DAVE:  2:22 Can we admit that no, no movie needs to be past 90 minutes? Well, very few do.

CATHY:  2:28 Depends on the genre.

DAVE:  2:29 The average runtime in Hollywood's gotten to the point of where it's two hours 15 is kind of about average now. And that's way too long, particularly for a comedy.

CATHY:  2:39 This is why Sam's doing this podcast.

DAVE:  2:41 Yeah so thanks Sam.

SAM:  2:42 I mean, you guys are just, you know, like buttering me up. Really playing to my ego, this is wonderful.

DAVE:  2:48 And it's not like people are coming out of movies nowadays feeling like they've gotten more money worth because they had an extra 45 minutes. Normally, it's the opposite. I feel like I could have lost that 45 minutes would have felt more satisfied.

SAM:  3:00 So when so when I asked you guys, if you'd like to program a film in the festival, what went through your mind? How did you tackle this task?

DAVE:  3:08 Just googled it!

CATHY:  3:09 Firstly, googled movies that are under 90 minutes. And then we went through what Google told us was under 90 minutes in our fantastic research. And then we decided on Toy Story for a couple of reasons. One being as we mentioned, we have a relatively new child, and we've been getting really excited about when he's old enough to watch movies, and therefore we are kind of getting back into kids movies again, and, and trying to watch, rewatch and see what we think would be like a positive experience with him. So that was one of them. And then the other one is, I guess the influence Pixar has had since this movie came out. So in terms of the history of animation, it's a really important movie in that sense as well. So in terms of programming a festival it's a very good place to start if you're going to be looking at um, you know, modern animated movies in the last 25 years.

SAM:  3:56 When I was doing some research about this film, which is from 1995, there's quite a lot of people posting about you know, they were maybe born when this film was out and now they have their own families, for the fourth one which is due out next year.

DAVE:  4:10 Oh God

CATHY:  4:10 I know it's weird, isn't it? Even watching it when we first started watching it, we were like, this does not look 25 years old. It really doesn't

FILM CLIP from Toy Story  4:17  
Buzz: Terrain seems a bit unstable. No readout yet if the air is breathable, and there seems to be no sign of intelligent life anywhere.
Woody: Hello.
Buzz: AHHH!
Woody: Oh, my god. Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah! Did I frighten you? Didn't mean to. Sorry, howdy, my name is Woody and this is Andy's room.

SAM:  4:37 Let's go into Toy Story. Let's talk about the pros and cons of screening this film. Very well known Pixar Animation Studios film. It's the film where toys come to life when their owner Andy leaves the room. It follows a pull-string cowboy called Woody voiced by Tom Hanks, who's Andy's favourite toy. That is until Buzz Lightyear appears on the scene, a gift at Andy's birthday party. Buzz Lightyear is voiced by Tim Allen. The two have an ongoing feud, but are forced to team up when they find themselves stranded in the real world. Through their attempts to return to Andy's room they forge a unique friendship. Directed by John Lasseter founder, one of the founders of Pixar Studios and originally released in 1995. So we've mentioned this a little bit but why Toy Story? Does Toy Story hold a special place in both your hearts?

DAVE:  5:27 I don't know. I've been meaning to rewatch this for quite a while, like I mean, like Cathy said, um, we're excited about showing movies to our son Oscar for the first time. And this is definitely up there in the list of, you know, first movies I'd like to show him. Funny enough personally for me it's not it's not one of my all time favourites, and I haven't watched it in a long time. But it's certainly it's a landmark movie. Pixar are easily my favourite animation studio. So this felt like the one that you'd pick for a film festival rather than my favourite. You know, I had to set aside my own personal whims, when I was picking up this job of festival programmer, and I thought about that the greater good and the public. And I think this this is the one that deserves to be shown.

SAM:  6:19 That's a very professional answer, Dave.

DAVE:  6:23 I'm treating this like a job interview.

SAM:  6:27 Do you remember first watching this film when it was released?

DAVE:  6:30 I do. I was about 10 years old. I remember, I remember enjoying it. I liked it and definitely got on board with it, lined up for all the sequels.

CATHY:  6:43 Well you would have been older than 10 you've done the maths wrong.

DAVE:  6:45 11, what was I?

CATHY:  6:47 Well it probably come out in Ireland a year later so you would probably been about 12

DAVE:  6:49 They're not that far behind the rest of the world!

CATHY:  6:51 Ireland was really behind with cinematic releases. Don't you remember when we were kids, it really was.

DAVE:  6:55 That's right. It actually came out in 2008 in Ireland.

CATHY:  7:00 No, but I actually never even saw at the cinema and I, I feel like I might have seen the newer ones before I saw the first one. It didn't appeal to me at all at whatever age was like 10 or 11 year old girl. And I remember having no, I literally had no interest in seeing it. Because it's very much marketed at boys. And then yeah, so I've only watched it more as an adult. So you don't often get that same resonance of the movie then I think if you watch it as an adult, and I'll get to it now but as we speak about the movie, but the more I watched of it last night, the less I liked it anyway.

DAVE:  7:31 Oh!

CATHY:  7:31 Yeah.

SAM:  7:31 Oh, wow. Okay, this is good. This is good. It's a nice juicy choice.
Well, it's um, I remember at the time, I was probably about 8 or 9 years old, but I remember just like, my mind being blown because it was made on computers and not really understanding how, like that happens. And and it was, I guess that's quite a unique experience. And I don't know if film goers will ever get that experience again of a completely new form coming in, and how different it was to anything else on offer. Like I grew up with Disney films, and I just couldn't get my head around that this was made in computers. And I don't think my dad could either, I went with my dad. And it was kind of a nice bonding experience for both of us just on the way out like, but but Mega Drive doesn't look that good! How does this look like, computers don't look as good as what's on the screen. What computer have they got? You know, and I sort of love that experience, that bubble.

DAVE:  8:31 Well, what's more baffling is that this is the same year that Windows 95 came out which means that they built this on computers that didn't even have Windows 95 they were that, that shit. Although they would have been probably be done with Macs right because Steve Jobs famously bought or backed Pixar and was an executive producer on this, I believe?

SAM:  8:53 He was one of the company founders, sort of a silent lead figure but he's got a credit on the film and and quite a few of the early Pixar films, so they probably have Steve's special iPad to make it.

CATHY:  9:02 Yeah, exactly. But it is funny now watching it um, and we'll speak to it again but just comparing the animation in that movie to a movie now, obviously it's come along leaps and bounds, but I wouldn't say it's come along in 25 years worth you know, to your point, the technology is better, but it's still the same technology, interestingly.

DAVE:  9:20 I disagree. I think the technology is just like unrecognisably different now.

CATHY:  9:25 Really?

DAVE:  9:25 Yeah, I mean it's it's it's still recognizably 3D but what they can do nowadays with texture and photo realism it's it's it's like, virtually it's a million miles away from the textures and...

CATHY:  9:39 It is but doesn't have the excitement Sam said now, and I was like yeah, we know they're all made on computers

DAVE:  9:43 That's true, it's lost the novelty but what I mean

CATHY:  9:46 The dog is genuinely something from a horror movie though. The animation of that dog is terrible.

DAVE:  9:51 The dog doesn't look good, the people don't look good. The erm, Sid and Andy basically have the same face

CATHY:  9:59 They're monsters

DAVE:  9:59 Yeah, monstrous, demon thousand yard stare. The the humans are terrifying in this. The toys stand, stand up the animation on the toys is still good because it's plastic and they're only supposed to look like limited 3D objects anyway. But yeah, it's an interesting, it's interesting to look at this as the dawn of an art form, because if you compare it hasn't aged as well as traditional 2D animation, if you look at Snow White as the first full length, 2D animated feature, that that really holds up I think.  That's just got a beautiful, lovely hand drawn quality to it.

SAM:  10:40 I think the film is made with good intentions though like they've made toys because they know they can do plastic, they can do the light reflecting on plastic. That's all good. And I remember as a kid, I remember thinking, Oh, yeah, well, that's why they don't show any human faces they just show their feet. But they show their faces a lot! And they have lines, the kids have lines. Maybe they were really excited to show these zombie children. But I feel like maybe I should have just just not shown you that you know, just just allude to adults and kids but don't have them having lines.

CATHY:  11:14 Yeah, because I went and read an old review from the New York Times from 1995 of it. And interestingly, that journalist said he thought he couldn't believe how realistic the kids looked. So I think of its time they would have been really proud of it. And it's funny because it reminded me of years ago Dave, funny you just mentioned Snow White, because we have the DVD but we were watching the special features. And they were saying that it was so difficult for them to draw a man because a man had never really been drawn like that before and that's why in Snow White, you only see the Huntsman and the prince like maybe three times in the whole movie. It's all Snow White and the dwarfs because the extra effort of animating a man was just like too much work for them. And it's like that with this you every now and then you'll see the kids or you'll see Andy's mum but we noticed his dad was never in it either, so they really limited the humans.

FILM CLIP from Toy Story  12:02
Woody: I think you've had enough tea for today. Let's get you out of here Buzz.
Buzz: Don’t you get it? You see the hat? I am Mrs. Nesbitt.
Woody: Snap out of it Buzz!
Buzz: I I I I'm I'm sorry, I You're right. I am just a little depressed that's all.

SAM:  12:22 I think the real star of the show for me was the screenplay. What did you guys think of the story and and how it tells this this tale in it's quite tight runtime?

DAVE:  12:31 I think tight's the right word that's what I was going to use. It's such a, it's a it's a brilliant screenplay. It's very concise. It knows exactly what it is. It's a buddy, it's a buddy story. It's it's almost it's also a road movie funnily enough, for a movie that's largely set between, well, two houses that are right next to each other. It's it's like Planes, Trains and Automobiles or any good buddy road movie. It's got the all the great ingredients, two characters, chalk and cheese, eventually coming to learn each other and learning about themselves. For me, I think on a character level, Woody is, watching it back now Woody's very hard to like. And I think deliberately so they write, they write him in a very ugly light. And I think in original drafts of this had him as the villain. And and I think elements of that remain and certainly he's treated as a villain by all his peers for pretty much the majority of the movie like they hate him, like Mr. Potato Head hates Woody.

CATHY:  13:37 That's because Woody if you're in the pecking order of the playroom, you're the top dog if you're the kids favourite toy, and Woody's obviously been a favourite for years. So Woody's just basically throwing it about being a complete arsehole about it. And they won't put up with it because he has been the number one but now that he's number two, they don't have to put up with it.

DAVE:  13:55 I think you're reading into things a bit much I think at the very beginning when when Woody's giving the the general meeting and he's chairing it, it all seems pretty amicable.

CATHY:  14:01 They're probably all rolling their eyes behind his back.

DAVE:  14:03 No, I think they only start hating them when they believe that he tried to murder Buzz Lightyear. That's really where it all went wrong.

SAM:  14:11 So Cathy, you said you were losing patience when you were rewatching the film?

CATHY:  14:15 Yes! So it was a really funny thing. Because, I mean, as I said, I if I've seen this movie before, it's it's maybe once and it was after seeing the other ones. And also, I'm really conscious having a son. I'm really conscious of the male voice that runs throughout all media and I'm, I really find it very distasteful. And I mean, the first thing that pops up in this movie you know is John Lasseter, who we know is embroiled in the MeToo scandal. Then quickly, I'm seeing that all the, you know, everyone's male involved in the production of this movie. Took ages for a woman's name to pop up in the credits. And then, and then very quickly into the movie, possibly one of the opening scenes, we meet Bo Peep, who's the only female character of the toys, and she's just like a romantic sexual object for Woody that’s all she is. She says something along the lines of 'Oh, I'll get someone else to mind the sheep', basically so we can snog. And that's pretty much her jam of the movie. As we mentioned, we've got Andy's mum in the background and then there's a girl a little girl who lives across the road and I think Andy's sibling maybe a girl but she's a baby so she doesn't say anything. And and I was just really troubled, the more I watched it. And then I was also thinking about you know what all of these characters are white as well. So it's a movie made by white men, and all the characters are white men. The female characters you know, the Geena Davis Institute is really interesting statistics on female voices in movies and particular kids movies. And I don't have access to her database because I'm not a member, but I found the information on Toy Story 3, which as we were watching it last night, I did think well Toy Story 3 has definitely got more female characters than this. But turns out and Toy Story 3, there's only one female to every three males. Now in this movie, so that's the 33 no, that would be like, what 25% women. In this movie, I would say it's like, if you were to do a percentage what maybe 2- 3%? If you include all the background characters...

DAVE:  16:22 You're looking at me like I'm supposed to know!

CATHY:  16:23 No honestly, I was really like, I'm really shocked watching it now. And then the only characters that are there are a background mother, a little sister who plays with dolls and Bo Peep who's like a fancy thing for Woody.

DAVE:  16:37 It's certainly a product of 1995.

CATHY:  16:40 So, but also the team that wrote it so actually now, now I don't think it's a movie I want to show Oscar. I really don't. I had a lot of issues with it. And as much as I agree with everything Dave said in that I think it's a really tight script, I think it's what what's cool about it for its time was that it, the humour was actually funny, the scary scenes were actually scary and the action scenes were genuinely thrilling and that's a big deal for a kids animation to manage to do all those things. And it was also interesting to have the protagonists be essentially adults which is very unusual in a kids movie. They usually like kind of tweens or kids. So I admire all of that but, but actually the fact that we are raising a little boy who is white, I certainly don't want him watching a movie where all he's seeing back at him is white men. Funnily enough even though we've recommended this film festival I think it should be for adults only to watch it in historical context.

DAVE:  17:33 Adults only like 18 plus? It's an 18 plus viewing of Toy Story, no kids allowed.

SAM:  17:39 That's quite a unique take on a Toy Story screening and and I think the festival will roll with that. I think that's a good, that's a good angle.

CATHY:  17:46 Thank you!

SAM:  17:47 It is interesting when you reappraise things from your childhood or things that you know, were made when we were kids. And you know, at the time you just like 'it's so good, this world is computers. I've never seen anything like this before'. But you're absolutely right. Sometimes when you take a closer look at it, some of the sheen can come off.

CATHY:  18:03 I know, these are things I wouldn't have noticed myself like even 10 years ago, I genuinely wouldn't have noticed it. So I certainly wouldn't have noticed it in the 90s.

DAVE:  18:09 Can I say though I think there's, there's, there's a distinction between a sort of a sinister bias and an underlying sort of societal bias and I think the latter is the case for Toy Story

CATHY:  18:21 But most bias is unconscious, and that feeds into like the psyche.

DAVE:  18:26 And I think it's also, I'm not denying that it's harmful.  However I think the, does that, the art in itself shouldn't suffer based on, based on that that's...

CATHY:  18:38 We just have to be very careful if we're curating a film program for Oscar, we'll have to be very careful that this sits alongside something like Moana.

DAVE:  18:47 I totally agree

CATHY:  18:48 We can show him Toy Story followed by that. You know what I mean?  

DAVE:  18:52 That's what I'm saying. What I'm getting at is I don't like the idea of omitting something from history

CATHY:  18:57 No it just has to be in context

DAVE:  18:59 It's all contextual  

CATHY:  19:00 Yeah

DAVE:  19:00 But you can explain these things to

CATHY:  19:02 Can you? You can't explain it to a 4-year old, he's just embracing what he's watching. Well he's not 4...

DAVE:  19:08 When he's 4 we'll make him count the, we'll have a stopwatch and he can count the amount of dialogue that every female has. And then and then anytime a woman's not talking he should feel deep reprehensible guilt for his uh,

CATHY:  19:21 For his maleness. But interestingly because I my bit of research I was doing on the the Geena Davis animation stuff. So in 2010, they did a study, which at the time, covered 122 titles, Toy Story included, and  overall they said 17% of characters in kids movies, on average were female, this movie would would fall way short of that.

SAM:  19:43 Wow. I think I think it's also something which Pixar has a problem with in general. You know, the company has been in existence now for almost 30 years if you include the shorts they originally made. And they've only recently had a film that's been directed by a female director. And it was a short film attached to a film directed by a man. So...

CATHY:  20:02 And it was great. I love that short. But again, it was like, wow, it's taken you this long. And then wasn't, was Coco their first movie about a character who wasn't just white?

SAM:  20:13 Yep, absolutely.

CATHY:  20:13 So they're very slow. And it's interesting looking at the culture now in Pixar, in their day, they were so innovative and know they are just a load of old rich white men.

SAM:  20:21 It is funny that they fallen behind Disney Animation Studios, which at the time was flagging. But Disney Animation Studios have had Frozen which was co-directed by a woman, two female protagonists, Moana as you mentioned. So it's interesting how they're sort of their sort up neck and neck, and actually Disney maybe has taken the lead in some elements of the cultural conversation.

CATHY:  20:40 Yeah, it is interesting, isn't it? It's a funny one. And, and I think I mean, I'm such a Moana fan, Oh my god, it's like my favourite, probably my favourite kids animation ever. And it doesn't, the element that this movie doesn't have and they did it on purpose, which is not to be a musical, which was was an interesting departure for Pixar. But I love a musical. So I think Dave preferred it to me, to me, you enjoy the fact that it wasn't a musical, didn't you? Right? I would have liked Woody to do a song and dance number.

DAVE:  21:05 I think okay, so interestingly, Disney wanted this to be a musical cuz you know, Disney make musicals. So they thought Toy Story should have been a musical, but Lasseter resisted at from throughout, and I found a good quote from Joss Whedon who wrote this, or co-wrote it. And he said that it's a because it's a buddy comedy with two characters who are at odds with each other, it can't be a musical, because musicals are all about people expressing their feelings and buddy comedies are all about people who can't even admit their true feelings to themselves. So I thought it was an interesting point.

SAM:  21:49 That's an interesting, it's quite a grown up genre trope to put into a family film.

DAVE:  21:54 Well, this is a very grown up film isn't it? In many ways. It's very adult in it, it's it's themes, and it's...

CATHY:  22:01 That's why it's 18 in our festival! It's a horror movie. Like those scenes in the bedroom when the toys are being tortured were terrifying!

DAVE:  22:08 It's scary, but I think every good kids film should be scary. It should have a little bit of scare.

CATHY:  22:13 I'm sorry but Moana is a buddy movie with amazing songs. Like 'You're Welcome'

SAM:  22:17 It's all true. Maybe the mid grounds they met was appointing Randy Newman as a composer because unusual for a Pixar film these days, but he, they have actual songs originally commissioned songs, to bridge the gap and to explain what's going on.

DAVE:  22:34 Yeah, and interestingly, watching it back, because we all remember 'You've Got A Friend In Me'.

CATHY:  22:38 Yeah. Which is such a beautiful song.

DAVE:  22:41 Superb. But I think he did three songs for this. And the other two are, aren't really great.

CATHY:  22:45 No, there was one where Buzz has his existential crisis, which is a quite a sad moment. And then this weird song, come on, where he like, basically was trying to fly and couldn't and we were both going 'oh this is really jarring'.  

DAVE:  22:56 I think it was, you said it there Sam, it was put in as a sort-of compromise to Disney where the songs were are intentionally supposed to express the emotions that the characters are feeling at the time because that's what a musical does. So what what you get is in a scene like that, which for me is my favourite scene in the whole movie where Buzz realizes he's a toy, and then he's staring up at that window and he's, you know, suddenly realizing just how small he is and how far away that window is, and that he can't fly. But then he tries to fly anyway, because that's, that's what's so good about Buzz Lightyear is that like, insatiable optimism, and then he fails, and it's just so sad and, and that beautiful shot that shot panning up from him lying on the ground with his arm falling off. It's absolutely outstanding stuff. But throughout all of that, you've got Randy Newman, basically saying, [singing] "I wish I could fly", or whatever it is, I had no idea

CATHY:  23:55 They should have at least had Bette Midler singing 'Wind Beneath My Wings'

SAM:  24:00 Maybe we can bring Bette to the film festival. Okay, we can we can correct some of the stuff with the screening.

CATHY:  24:05 We could do it live! Live orchestral.

DAVE:  24:08 Do our own musical? An adults only, R rated musical version of Toy Story?

CATHY:  24:14 Would be amazing.

SAM:  24:15 It's gonna be a hot ticket, we will charge by the minute.

CATHY:  24:18 And it would be awesome.

SAM:  24:20 I think that's fine. But you're right. I think there are there are these huge, huge emotional scenes throughout the film, which I don't think I got so much as a kid, but I definitely got them now. And the other thing I didn't really get so much as a kid was how funny some of the jokes are like, I was belly laughing at the most simplest inane jokes. Like there's a there's a workout montage and all the toys are lifting up dumbbells and the troll toy has no like movable limbs so the troll toy couldn't lift it up. Like that killed me when I rewatched!

CATHY:  24:51 That's so cute! The visual gags, like Dave didn't even spot a couple last night I had to rewind it, like when when Woody is carrying on about something and Mr. Potato Head takes his own lips off and sticks them to his bum, like as if to say 'kiss ass' but they don't say that because it's a kids movie. And it's so subtle and it's just purely for the adults and it's just so sweet. And then another one where doesn't he like, arrange, right he's arranging itself into like a Picasso? Like there's all this funny stuff going on with Mr. Potato Head that that you wouldn't it probably not notice unless you were at home with the recorder and you could rewind it. Like in the cinema would would probably go unnoticed.

DAVE:  25:27 It's why, it's why this movie is so fully formed for a first feature length movie from a Studio and  a director. And it's why Pixar are the sort of powerhouse they are today is because of that attention to detail. Like every single frame of this movie in any Pixar movie is just teeming with like, life and creativity and thoughtfulness like they they're very, they're mad creative bunch. And it's very, very, very

SAM:  25:52 I think it's a good way for them to set up what they're all about. Like I think a lot of the good things in this film are carried over into future Pixar films. Like the attention to detail with the story, the attention to detail with the sight gags and and building up these these characters and being able to do comedy and emotional stuff. And it feels like this is the blueprint for the next 25 years of what they do.

CATHY:  26:14 Yeah, they really had a vision and I read an interesting piece that the BBC had done a couple years ago on their website where they were talking about this being a new thing really for kids movies to have those adults as central characters and and seeing things from the adults point of view because for a long time adults would just be you know, like Bambi's mum or Simba's dad or whatever. Because like The Lion King you think about it was only the year before this is all like child's quest. And and then they were kind of positing which I think is a really good position and what they were talking about Pixar movies do for example, Finding Nemo so much of it is from the dad's perspective. Even the newer movies like Up the old man was a huge character. Inside Out the the people inside her head were actually grown ups. And it is really interesting it's like when you do compare that to the traditional Disney movie that is actually a real point of difference as well and they did set that up because the toys are we were saying last night essentially like his parents almost. Like they're trying to look after Andy and do right by him and like not upset him and and curry favour with him like almost like a parent who doesn't want to piss off their kid, because you don't want to have a bad day with your kids during the temper tantrum. So you know parents naturally placate their kids, probably bad as that is to do. And the toys would have done anything to keep Andy happy and to keep in his favour. And I just love, like, it's terrible but like the scenes when when Woody first comes along and Andy just like throws him on the floor, it's heartbreaking! Like our Oscar does that to us all the time like as soon as anything more interesting than us comes into the room he physically pushes us out of the way! I just thought, like it's so obviously written by parents.

DAVE:  27:49 I think they didn't realize, nobody would have realized how, just how big this was going to be though. I think it took them a...

CATHY:  27:56 While I was reading it cost them 30 million dollars to make and in the opening weekend they made a they made 35 million dollars.

SAM:  28:02 It went on to be the highest grossing film of the year it was released, the highest grossing film of 95. It beat some of, all the big Oscar films, Apollo 13 it's uh, it was a huge success. That year we had Heat, Se7en, Clueless, Jumanji, Braveheart, Pocahontas, Goldeneye, and this was the highest grossing film of the year.

CATHY:  28:28 You're putting that into context like it beat a Bond movie. That's huge! Yeah. Wow. And it beat Clueless, the best movie of all time.

DAVE:  28:35 Was that not under 90 minutes?

SAM:  28:36 I don't know. I don't think so. I think the only film it beat that year that would be eligible for this festival was Pocahontas in terms of the, in the films in like the top 10 highest grossing films. So Disney are still keeping their run times tight but didn't make as much money as the new guys.

CATHY:  28:51 And Pocahontas is one as an aside I re-watched relatively recently and it's terrible. It's unwatchable.

SAM:  28:56 I think it's got one good song. And uh, and that's it. Well actually speaking of songs, so Randy Newman was nominated for an Oscar for 'You've Got A Friend In Me' but he lost to 'The Color of the Wind' from Pocahontas.

CATHY:  29:12 Oh, wow. I mean, like it's a good song to be fair, but it's like it's no, 'You've Got A Friend In Me'. Well, now that I say it out loud, it is the only good scene in the Pocahontas movie. And it is a beautiful song.

DAVE:  29:27 Why don't you sing some of it?

CATHY:  29:29 I mean, I'm dying to sing it, but I won't.

DAVE:  29:30 Go on!

SAM:  29:31 Save that for the screening.

CATHY:  29:33 I'll save that for the screening. I'll sing, okay, I'm gonna sing 'Colors of the Wind' to the moment when Buzz Lightyear jumps out. Forget about Bette Midler.

DAVE:  29:40 So hang on, Bette Midler is flying all the way over for this film festival, and you're going to sing?

CATHY:  29:44 I think 'Colors of the Wind' is more apt now I think about it.

DAVE:  29:47 Okay

CATHY:  29:47 Yeah.

DAVE:  29:52 Sorry, hahaha, so you're going to sing so the moment where the Randy Newman song comes on, you're going to sing the song that beat him to the Oscar?

CATHY:  29:58 Yeah!

DAVE:  29:58 Okay, right.

[90 Mins or Less Film Fest Jingle]

SAM:  30:03 Seeing this on a big screen with a packed audience, I think it would still be a lot of fun. And and and I think that's the sort of the gold standard to aim for.

DAVE:  30:13 It is it's a really fun movie, despite the fact that we've spent 25 minutes talking about feminism in the media movement! I mean, you didn't expect this with your with your Toy Story podcast.

CATHY:  30:23 No but it completely holds up. And because we watched it together last night, we were like genuinely laughing together and enjoying it. It didn't, well what it didn't have for me that the newer Pixar movies do is that real emotional punch at the end like Toy Story 3, where you get a cry out of it as well, which I always enjoy. So didn't quite have the emotional punch. But I think they just weren't there yet with what they were doing with characters, like the closest moment they came to it was that really horrific moment really when Buzz Lightyear's watching some sort of like nightmarish dystopian video about the packaging of his life that he's seeing in this ad. And that should have been sad and as we said, that didn't quite work and there was a funny song to it. But...

DAVE:  31:00 But there's no song there

CATHY:  31:01 No, sorry after that there was that funny song, but but I think sitting in an audience albeit you'll miss out on the crying scenes, you get a great laugh. And you know, the laughter so contagious at a screening that like a bit that you may not laugh at home, there would be genuine mirth in the audience. And I think it's see, I'd love to see the animation on a big screen, because we just watched it on our TV last night, and it would be amazing to see how it holds up in a big projection.

DAVE:  31:25 Yeah, it's certainly not, it's not it's definitely not Pixar's best movie I don't think.  It's not my favourite. It doesn't have I mean, in many ways, it's it's quite simplistic, it doesn't have a lot to say it is really just a story with these two characters. To the point where I was like trying to, last night, trying to fill in some deeper meaning of, of Toy Story or themes, or what it could all be an analogy for. And the best, the best I could come up with is that it could be you could view Toy Story as a, a treatise on the dangers of populism, which is a very, I think, very, very appropriate to today's audiences. So maybe I could give an hour long lecture at the beginning of the movie, before we go into this about how the at the beginning of Toy Story when we see Andy, oh sorry, when we see Woody addressing the toys, that's democracy in action, I think and you know, everything is working fine. It's the status quo. And everything's great until this shiny new figure shows up at the top of the bed promising change. And he's quite naive. And he's, he's got sort of a childlike view of the world. But that optimism sort of inspires others to...

CATHY:  32:44 Sorry is this the start of your one hour?

DAVE:  32:46 ...take up the cause. Yeah, this is, settle in we've got 59 minutes to go!

CATHY:  32:49 But no, there's no deeper message to it. You're right. I think the only message really is that they're just trying to constantly please him and they can't, because at the end of the day, shiny new things will always win out.

SAM:  32:59 Okay. So when we go into the screening, we've got a whole host of special events, can we just go through the running order of what audiences can expect when they come to The Cinemile screening of Toy Story?

CATHY:  33:11 Great.

SAM:  33:12 So what have we got first of all? We've got, so who introduces the film, if you could have anybody come to this screening to introduce the movie, who would you book?

CATHY:  33:20 I would probably get someone who is an expert on the technology of the movie because I think that's like the biggest, most exciting bit of the movie is the technology. So someone very briefly to talk through that maybe? What Dave, what do you think?

DAVE:  33:34 Yeah.

CATHY:  33:34 Yeah?

DAVE:  33:35 Yeah. Or Randy Newman.

CATHY:  33:36 I mean, yeah, Randy Newman would be the best. Oh, yeah. I mean, if we can have anyone we would have Randy Newman on the piano and Bette Midler singing

DAVE:  33:41 Or Tom Hanks.

SAM:  33:41 Absolutely, I mean, at the moment there's the budgets haven't been set for the festival so it's blue sky thinking, let's go for the big guns.

CATHY:  33:50 Okay, so we've Randy Newman on the piano, Bette Midler's sitting on top the piano singing and Tom Hanks is in the corner singing as well?

DAVE:  33:56 Yeah!

CATHY:  33:56 Yeah? No Tim Allen though?

DAVE:  33:58 Yeah, Tim Allen can come too.

SAM:  34:00 Tim Allen can come, but that's totally on him.

CATHY:  34:04 Yeah, that's on him. We get him a budget air, we'll fly him Ryanair over for the screening.

DAVE:  34:10 What you know what we could do, which would be interesting. If we you you bring the the alternative voice cast. So because some of that is very interesting, you know, Jim Carrey was the first choice to play Buzz Lightyear? But he was a, they couldn't afford him.

CATHY:  34:25 Was he too busy like doing The Mask or something?

DAVE:  34:27 Well, no, he was like I think that his he was a huge star in 1995. So they couldn't afford him and Tom Hanks because, and Tom Hanks had already booked in.

CATHY:  34:36 So do you think we should bring Jim Carrey to introduce Toy Story?

DAVE:  34:39 No, not only introduce it, we get him to re-dub the whole movie with his performance so we can finally see what that would be like.

CATHY:  34:46 So, if they, if Pixar couldn't afford Jim Carrey, you think we can afford Jim Carrey?

SAM:  34:49 Jim Carrey's stock has waned slightly, I feel like he's probably a bit more achievable now. And yeah, so maybe it's a live dub? Maybe that's the angle on this screening.
Okay, well, that sounds like a hot ticket.
And just finally, do you think this film should be or could be more than 77 minutes long?

CATHY:  35:13 No.

DAVE:  35:14 No

CATHY:  35:15 I actually thought the very last action scene where the toys are all chasing the truck back and forth. About the fifth time they fell out of the truck and rolled back again, I thought oh this scene could really do with being over now. And I know they're showing off the animation and they paced it really well. And just right at the end, I mean, I tend to get bored of long action scenes anyway, but I felt like that could have been a little bit shorter.

DAVE:  35:37 Disagree.

CATHY:  35:38 Okay. Yeah. So you think 77 exactly. I'd say trim it to 74.

DAVE:  35:42 74? You want your three minutes back?

CATHY:  35:45 I want my three minutes back.

DAVE:  35:46 You're not actually paying by the minute!

CATHY:  35:47 I've seen My Life As A Courgette, I know what an under 70 minute movie can be.

DAVE:  35:52 No, I think it's Yeah, it's it's perfect. It's so concise. Yeah, bang on.

FILM CLIP from Toy Story  36:03
Woody: YOU ARE A TOY! You aren’t the real Buzz Lightyear, you’re an action figure! You are a child's plaything!
Buzz: You are a sad strange little man, and you have my pity. Farewell.

SAM:  36:15 There we go. Toy Story is in the 90 Minutes or Less Film Festival. Thanks so much for choosing it guys.

CATHY:  36:20 Thank you for accepting our submission, which I've nearly talked myself out of.

SAM:  36:24 Well I think we've got not only is it a screening of Toy Story, but it's probably a day of events around the themes of the film.

[90 Mins or Less Outro Bed]

SAM:  36:37 Where can listeners find you Dave and Cathy?

DAVE:  36:39 We are @TheCinemile. If anyone doesn't know our podcast, it's where we record our walks home from the movie. From the cinema basically, from all from all the movies we go to, to the cinema.

CATHY:  36:52 Yeah, so it does what it says on the tin. And so we're anywhere you listen to podcasts. And we're also on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all the usual social places

DAVE:  37:02 @TheCinemile

CATHY:  37:03 @TheCinemile

SAM:  37:03 And I can I can wholeheartedly say, it's a really excellent listen. And you were kind enough to invite me on an episode last year which was, which was a thrill and a joy.

DAVE:  37:14 Yes, so it was War for the Planet of the Apes.

CATHY:  37:16 It was one of the Planet of the Apes movies, but they all the names have blurred

DAVE:  37:19 It's the one that I just said

CATHY:  37:20 The one that you said? So we had you and Simon on, we loved having you guys as guests. I particularly enjoyed the fact that Simon agreed with me that Caesar was hot.

SAM:  37:30 Okay, so there we have it, Toy Story presented by The Cinemile in the 90 Minutes or Less Film Festival. Thank you so much for listening. Please like favourite subscribe. You can find us on Apple podcasts or your pod catcher of choice. And you can contact us @90MinFilmFest on Twitter and Instagram. The show was produced by Louise Owen and me Sam Clements. And music is by Martin Austwick, the show is edited by Luke Smith and our artwork is by Sam Gilbey. Dave, Cathy, thank you so much for talking to us. And we'll see you at the festival for the big premiere. Goodbye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai